I'm slightly confused on this idea, wasn't the purpose of Towncenter a downtown area for Buffalo Grove? As a resident if I go there twice a year it's a lot. There are NO Stores I would shop at, possible one restaurant I would eat at, and one movie theater, that is so dirty inside you stick to the floor, that might possibly be closed in a few months. If I am correct the condos behind the center only one of the two buildings proposed is constructed. Before we start tearing down our beautiful municipal complex, to build a new town center, that might again be half empty, and go unused, let's improve what we do have, and get it up and running to what it was intended for. Spending money on a hope and a dream, is not really a sound idea, in these tough financial times. Then we would need new property to build a new municipal campus, when the one we have is perfectly fine.

Where is it??

Before I can decide pro/ con need to see the final details of what they want to build. Since the golf course isn't self supporting it's clear something needs to be done with that land. Will wait for the facts before forming an opinion.

How many stores do we really need? Shopping should NOT be viewed as entertainment or recreation. It's a mall, not a "town center". Don't let anyone tell you different.... People want to live in BG for the parks and green space, not because there is a Starbucks in middle of a mall where a beautiful piece of open space used to exist... If it happens we'll call it Towncenter v2.0.....sad.

Most successful Village downtowns are located near a rail system.....don't you think this would be better location to bring business/revenue to the area??? Lake Cook rd/Buffalo Grove Rd is too congested as it is!!!

Who is going to pay for this to happen...? the taxpayers, or the businesses that are not there yet. As it is, Taxes in BG are very high and my salary is very low.With the many increases in the utilities bills, food prices, etc, my salary to pay for this project does not meet the expectations for this to happen. if you plan on not listing to the people who live in BG area, and plan on constructing the Town Center any way, do it in small increments and get the prospective business to commit, and then lets see where it goes from there

We are so against this proposal that we are down right angry that they would even consider this. This is a classic case of let's pave paradise and put up a parking lot. We've been reading about this proposal and besides killing more green space, we don't want MORE traffic in an already impossible area to pass through any time near or around rush hour. Another negative is that we have so many vacant storefronts as it is. Let's try to get the existing storefronts occupied. The building of more housing will increase the burden on all our services and schools as well. We no longer have children in school but wouldn't smaller class sizes be preferable? Stop this insane proposal before it could possibly happen. Leave BG the way it is and let it continue to be the beautiful town that attracted residents to BG to begin with.

I think you people are all crazy! In order for buffalo grove to be competitive with towns such as palatine, Arlington Heights WE NEED A REAL DOWN TOWN..... if you want to bring in revenue and create jobs making nice new facilities a downtown attraction would work. I hate Buffalo Grove cause it sucks compared to all the downtown's around us! We are pathetic excuse for a town! Have any of you guys been to palatines downtown? We are way behind the ball people BG is stuck in the 80's. It is called an investment people... think about future..... and if you want people to even consider moving to this lame excuse for a town its a must.

I would like to stay civil about this, not call you crazy and just mention that if you don't like BG why don't you move to a more desirable location that suits your needs? Just saying.

As Angie said, Palatine, Arlington Heights and Des Plaines are all built around a Metra station. It has to be viable and this proposal isn't. I'm sure we'd end up with the bill eventually, as usual. Also, I moved to BG for the country atmosphere in a semi-urban environment. If I wanted a city ambience, I'd move to Chicago. I don't want that; I like it here.

They really should concentrate on fixing up all the existing strip malls before adding more. I do not look forward to more traffic and don't look forward to having to pay for it as a taxpayer. If they do this (which I am pretty sure they will), I hope they do it on a smaller scale. Seems overboard to me.

It certainly seems that most are not in favor of this project. I hope the board is reading all of this and taking note.

Jilly - I think the board has already made up its mind unfortunately. I'll probably have moved on by the time it comes to fruition (empty nest) but sadly your point about the Metra should've been a first discovery for our board as well as the developer. It wasn't and I don't see them changing course now.

Susan and Audrey, as I understand it (not 100% sure), the Town Center is privately owned so re vamping it would be up to the owner. That is out of the Villages hands.

On that note, I do not understand why we are suddenly so desperate for revenue when we could have had the Target Center and the Walmart/Sams club. Those were slotted for Buffalo Grove but we did not want it. So after major hoops jumped, both those plots of land were annexed to Wheeling. Now they receive all that revenue. Seems a little backwards, don't you think?

Charlie, you're right and it certainly seems like there's an agenda. They have nothing to say to the experts who have no real financial interest in what we do but to the guy who stands to make some nice money out of it, they're just drooling over every word he says. That alone makes me wonder how much trust we should put in this board.

Danette, our property taxes are high because of the school system and nothing is going to reduce our taxes. We've heard for years that once we have businesses established here (back in the '80's when there was much farm land) that our taxes would go down. Has anyone seen that happen? Because I haven't. And I've been here from the days when there were no businesses in town other than the mom and pop; variety through today. Must we become Golf and Meacham in Schaumburg in order to see a reduction in property taxes?

But I agree with you - it almost seems like the board has made their decision. Well, I've made mine, too. I'm not going to vote for any of them again for anything. I don't feel they have our best interests in mind, they only want to leave some legacy. Well look at the legacy left by the bozo's who told us town center would be THE thing that gives us a real downtown with lots of things to do for families, many shops and nice restaurants. That's some legacy, isn't it?!

Jilly - I wasn't specifically tying any one comment to you except to say I agree with your post that we should attempt to work with what we have, instead of building new. I think Tim is passionate about his viewpoint but I don't consider it angry. A lot of times when people post about what they dislike about BG the first comment is to "move." As I said, people move here for the schools - and we pay very high taxes to support those schools. Civil is always good. I just think that we as a community shouldn't always dismiss people's negative opinions without giving them the same time and attention as those who speak positively about our community. There are many occasions on this very message board during other BG village business that people have been told to "move" if you don't like it. As a community that doesn't bode well for newcomers to feel included in the future plans for their homes and their futures. I feel all the comments here are relevant - particularly in something that does impact us not only in the pocketbook but asthetically and in infrastructure as well. I hope you didn't take my comment as personal - it was in general.

As far as the golf course not paying for itself, I suspect it's not a lot of money and much better to have the open space than more concrete. Consider it another park. Say yes to grass.

Isn't the golf course the emergency storm run-off? When it rains a ton and the course gets flooded, where will that water go now?

I lived in Novi, Mich. Novi wanted a Town Center to compete with Northville Mich (neighboring town). So they built this shopping center, lined the streets with park benches, planted tree...what happened...people drove there jumped out of their cars shopped and left, traffic in and out became huge issue (city raised more money to widen roads). No many years later, they have ripped out benches (they went unused), it's full of specialty stores (for the most part), they had to anchor it with a Wal-Mart to keep the small stores alive...

BG is not a Palatine, "if we build it they may not come"...

http://novitowncenter.com/store-directory/view-all-stores/

agree with Tim completely we need a downtown! we have nothing here no good stores to go to!! Town Center is Just a stupid strip mall with nothing in it! A real downtown should have been built a long time ago so we could have all enjoyed it by the time its finished most of us might be living somewhere else I guess it better late than not at all!

Waste of time, what is the goal? build some more empty stores? Not far from Long Grove, also a ghost town. Of course, it would provide jobs.

You don't 'build a downtown'. BG will never be an Arlington Hts type town. That's not a bad thing, just a different thing. What sort of business are we hoping to attract that isn't in the next five towns over. Will they need 53 to be done first, traffic around here already blows.

So the thinking here is "Build it and they will come". Who exactly is they? All the towns I k ow that have a viable downtown are on a metra line. Someone in this thread mentioned Libertyville as an example. Um, have you been there? Traffic is horrific even in the middle of the day.

Also, the towns that have a viable downtown grew up around it, they drop it in on top of a golf course.

I'm against this for the following reasons:
- This will have a negative effect on traffic flow in our town, which STINKS as it is
- We already have empty store fronts all over town, this will exasurbate the problem
- Town Center is already a blight on our community, this will make it worse
- This will cause an increase in taxes when it fails
- Property values will take another hit they can't afford, people buying will not see this as a positive
- Loss of green space. Wanna build something? Build a REAL POOL
This is NOT a good idea....

As usual, opinions are like noses. Everybody has one. But why not learn facts? Buffalo Grove didn't turn down Sam's and Walmart. It was the property owner who decided to go to Wheeling. From what I hear, all Buffalo Grove was offered was the corner piece of land that the Mobil station sits on. A lot of the other stories floating around are in the same category. That's why the Save BG group is working to gather facts and data regarding the proposal and the process being followed by the Village. It costs nothing to join that group.

There are several examples of busy shopping / retail / restaurants not on metra lines including Deer Park, Milwaukee Road in Wheeling, Rt 12 / Rand stretching from Lake Cook to Palatine Rd, Rt 12 & Rt 22 / Half Day, Milwaukee & Rt 22 and Milwaukee & Aptakisic. Even the recently expanded Wheeling WalMart and surrounding stores prove a metra station is not needed to bring shoppers and their tax dollars. Being on a metra line may bring some advantages (though not so much on Sat / Sun when there is nominal commuter traffic). Metra lines are important so that employees can commute into work. Not sure they insure a successful shopping / entertainment district. Need to see the details and facts before forming an opinion.:)

A separate voter REFERENDUM is usually required (by law) when you sell-off a public golf course-"park" for NONPUBLIC USE. Who cares? Not in your "backyard"? Warning: when the village begins a policy of "cannIbalizing" open spaces for "revenue" - that lovely little park near your house will be next! "Nip it in the bud now."

Diane, go look up what a tif really is. It locks the tax rate, it doesn't mean you don't see any taxes for that period of time. How much revenue is that golf course providing now? I think the point is that we are all driving to Woodfield, deer park, etc. to shop because there isn't anything here. I'm glad our government is looking for ways to keep sales tax revenue here so my property taxes don't go up. I looked at the info on the village's site and I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want this for the town. It looks like quite an improvement to me.

Chicago is the "Downtown" for BG, Arlington Heights, Deerfield, Libertyville,
Wheeling, Etc.!!! Also we have several shopping centers that fill our needs.
Plus the Deerfield "Downtown" that this firm touts is a redesigned "Shopping Center"!!

Soccar Mom I think you are the one who needs to look up what a TIF is. Start by reading the excellent series done by the Chicago Reader. A TIF freezes the property taxes over a timeframe that go to schools, parks, etc and ultimately causes taxes to rise since the money will be diverted to this development that many feel there is no need for instead of other things.

We do not need a downtown or town center. People are attracted to Buffalo Grove because of its schools and location. Green space is better than concrete any day.
Ellen KElly

"They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique
And a swinging hot SPOT
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
'Til it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot"

As a former small business owner in Buffalo Grove and a local area resident, I can tell you that there are towns in the Chicago area that are known to be good for business and others that are known to be the opposite, I can tell you that the reputation for Buffalo Grove is that it is most definitely not business friendly, and I can attest to that fact. As many of the other previous posters have noted, Buffalo Grove has been described to me by my realtor (who emphatically tried to discourage me from opening a business here) as "house poor", meaning the recent downturn in the economy has especially hit this community hard because much of their wealth is tied to their homes. Secondly, I can tell you first hand that the village itself is in fact pretty difficult to work with (compared to other local villages I've worked with). So until the Board members can figure out a way to encourage and attract more businesses (I guess the first step would be to acknowledge they even want to promote businesses in Buffalo Grove to begin with) to help pay for a chunk of your tax burden, I'm sad to say that I think its just going to continue to get worse and worse.

Tom K very relevant and true comment. For those who've posted that they don't want more business and want more green space - much to Tom's comment, BG will continue to decline in population, home values will not increase as in years past and that green space ya'all keep talking about will begin to look less and less appealing. It takes funds to keep the green spaces looking like the park setting you can't seem to let go of. I'm not in favor necessarily of starting new with tearing down half the BG Golf Course but I do agree that there needs to be renewed interest in beautifying what exists and getting retail business back into the village. Our population declining will eventually hurt the schools...and the higher our taxes go because there is no real revenue coming into the village, the more people will go to Lake Zurich, Libertyville and elsewhere. The village does have a reputation for being difficult to work with, many times our zoning issues have created situations where a business walked after many years (car dealers) or they decided not to sign because of the zoning issues. When businesses are not able to advertise their location with signage (simple example) they're going to move down the street to AH, Palatine, Northbrook etc. The village board is on the verge of a wake up call - now is the time to act.

Taxes - your property taxes paid to the Village of Buffalo Grove are LESS than 10% of your total property tax bill.

This project is in the concept stages and by no means a "done deal". There is much to be done before it could be completed. Residents need to look at the entire plan and keep informed and participate in the public hearings that will take place. Many of the concerns and questions mentioned here are addressed on the BG website at www.vbg.org

Target and Sam's/Walmart were never a possibility for Buffalo Grove. The property owner had always been in Wheelilng and wanted to stay in Wheeling and was not turned down by the Village of Buffalo Grove.

But...but...but...

They NEED the taxes these upscale stores would generate to pay for the widening of Weiland, a projected HUNDRED MILLION dollar project of which the village will probably need to find at least $10, 000, 000 or more, and that's if our almost bankrupt state can come up with the rest. I believe they have already spent half a million on it and nothing's been done to date.

I agree with others - fix what's broken instead of building new.

And I live near the Metra station and with those huge electricity pylons running right near there I can't imagine a successful retail/downtown location ever going in anywhere near there.

Why would BG have to come up with $10M for the Weiland Road expansion? Roads are covered under federal and county budgets...according to what I read BG is only on the hook for $1.5M - of which we've already paid $1.2M. It's part of the Lake-Cook expansion - estimated at $54M and $40M for the Weiland Road expansion. Sooooo here's my question - out of all the above posts with some complaining about the traffic - why wouldn't we want the expansion to occur? Lake-Cook Road is traveled by folks from Algonquin to Chicago....fact. The traffic isn't going to decline just because we don't improve the roads OR don't build a profitable retail business. It's going to increase because the surrounding areas are growing and Lake-Cook is a major thruway. As for Weiland - it's how local traffic is able to go around Lake-Cook. Is it inconvenient to have road construction - absolutely. Most of us suffered through Lake Cook Rd when they made it into the 8 or 6 lane thruway it is now but guess what - it didn't last forever and access is much more amenable today than it was 15 years ago. Isn't there a hearing in January? If you don't understand the cost or the why to this improvement, maybe you should attend the hearing.

I have attended the majority of the meetings involving the road improvements and the proposed downtown development. While traffic will continue to pass through our village to get to their final destinations, we don't need to pay for an easier access for them when such expansions will cause Buffalo Grove residents, businesses, schools, etc to either lose their homes, drastically affect their ability to be prosperous, and will adversely affect our children's welfare. Both road expansions, Lake Cook Road and Weiland Road, are designed in such a way to force people to lose their homes. Both will affect our children's schools (AJHS and Saint Mary's) and playing fields (both sides of Lake Cook Road). Businesses and residents will also be forced to lose their businesses or homes because of the Weiland Road expansion. I am opposed to both expansions and the downtown development!

Just three words:

NO

EFFEN

WAY !!!!

I am vehemently opposed to spending money which will hurt our citizens, especially our children, just to become known as a "Pass Through Village". I also don't believe the downtown development is in the best interests of our community for too many reasons to list here.

Cicada, a tif takes the tax increment and pays back the debt. It doesn't mean no taxes are collected or that local governments don't collect any taxes. We're talking about a piece of land that collects no property tax currently, so what could we possibly lose in property taxes from this?

Charlie Barker, go look at the plan. A grocery store is not the anchor. There is a department store as an anchor and a whole bunch of bars and restaurants. I don't think it's going to replace anything. I think it will give BG people an opportunity to spend money in BG on things that they have historically bought at place like Deer Park and Woodfield.

It seems like there is still a lot of unanswered questions about this downtown that the village is figuring out. I don't quite understand why people are so against something that is conceptual and doesn't have a lot of detail to it yet. I like the idea and I hope it comes to be.

Charlie, you seem to be an expert in retail and urban planning. Maybe you should reach out to the developer to help him plan this thing, because he's obviously just going to build it and then pray he can fill all that empty space once it is done.

I'm sure he just woke up one day and decided to propose this multimillion dollar development without doing any economic studies, or testing the waters with potential tenants to see if there's interest. After all, he'd never dream of getting any tenant contracts in place before breaking ground, would he? The guy is apparently incapable of planning a project like this, despite his success building similar things in other places. He really needs your wisdom and guidance so he doesn't waste his money.

And when you're done, run for a spot on the board so you can share your expertise and educate them on urban planning and retail development because they're just making decisions willy-nilly without doing any research or employing experts in this area. That's how BG turned into a low rent hell hole, right? Just look at how terrible our quality of life is, and how lousy our public works, police and fire departments are performing. And BG is in such terrible financial shape, isn't it? Yep, BG is run by incompetent nincompoops who need more guidance from " experts" like you.

I'm certain you'll fix everything that's less than perfect overnight- probably without leaving your LazyBoy.

Charlie, you obviously haven't gone on the village's site. If you had, you'd see that there is a department store planned. It doesn't say what department store, but it also doesn't specify any specific stores or restaurants.

As for your point about lunch business being key, two things... 1. There is an entire office complex around the golf course that I don't think is going anywhere. 2. Your own example of Outback Steakhouse does not open for lunch and somehow they stay in business. I think you are wrong that Town Center is a better location. It is smaller, poorly designed and faces the less busier road.

Soccer Mom, Then what do we do with the eyesore that is Town Center? If it had been built in a different manner, NOT like a strip mall, it may have made it. I say knock it down and rework the space. If the village had not been so picky when it was designed and built, it may have made it. They did not even want a Gap store there years ago. That is a huge draw for people of every age. There were many more retailers they turned away. Not "upscale" enough. But at one point we had an Eagle in there. Hmmm...

BG Mom, I don't know what you can do with Town Center, other than buy it and do whatever you'd like with it. I just don't see what Town Center has to do with this downtown proposal.

Why do people keep talking about fixing up Towncenter? For the last time-the village DOES NOT OWN IT.

Don't build anything. We don't need any more concrete anywhere in this village. BTW, for you new arrivals, those buildings that the public works and police department are in are fairly new. We paid for those not too long ago. They'd have to go, too.

The green areas are important for water. If your basement has never been flooded, you're lucky. More concrete exacerbates the flood problem.

Diane, you say the same board members are touting this that said town center was going to be the answer. I don't believe that any of the current board members where on the board back then.

I found this interesting article in the Lake Zurich Patch about their downtown. According to a consultant they hired, the approach to take isn't to just listen to one developer who asks to make a pitch about what they can do, it's to ask developers to send in their credentials and references, sift through and whittle them down to three developers you invite to send in proposals and proof of financial ability to take on the project.

The consultant also had this to say:

"Brown told the board that there is no market for retail currently. He said the development of Block A should be dictated by what is economically feasible in the marketplace.

“Doesn’t that kill the idea of a destination if it’s nothing but apartments,” asked Poynton.

“You can’t beat the market,” Brown said. He added that the population density doesn’t support retail development for downtown, unless the village was willing to subsidize it.

Brown told board members that he believes the community would be more interested in seeing progress downtown.

“They want a rational approach to downtown,” he said."

http://lakezurich.patch.com/articles/downtown-development-village-looks-at-starting-over-with-new-process

Fix the original "town center" first.

Don't waste anymore of the developers time and money and can this idea now. I, for one, do not want this monstrosity.

If this thing becomes a sucessful reality, which I doubt, it would only worsen the traffic on Lake cook road.

To BG Park District patron:
There are many beautiful parks within BG. When my children were young we visited many of them. One issue with some of the parks is that they were built as "neighborhood parks" instead of village ones because parking was NOT included in the building of them. They are not easily accessible to those of us who don't live in those neighborhoods. When there is a really hard or extended rain, the golf course partially floods as it provides extra greenspace for the excess water to go. The golf course could be turned into an actual "Village Green" unlike the current one which has NO immediate parking attached to it. The village citizens who live around the golf course need it to stay green because of the flooding issues. If you think there isn't a flooding problem in BG, then talk to the citizens who live near the creeks, lakes, and water rentention ponds after a big rainstorm.

Whether or not the "Town Center" can be fixed to create the downtown as it was meant to be, may not be part of the solution to the problems of the proposed development and the proposed expansions of LakeCook, Wieland, Aptakistic, and BG Rds. Theorectically let's take it out of the equation. The facts still remain why the development and road extensions need to be reviewed as one because they will have a significant impact on the CURRENT homeowners, business owners, schoolchildren, and even the veterans. Picture in your minds what Lake Cook Rd will do to the exisitng townhomes, football fields, businesses, etc. when it is widened to SIX LANES instead of the current four. Where are they going to get the land needed between the new veterans memorial and AJHS on Weiland to expand to FOUR lanes plus sidewalks and possibly a bike path? When the Park District Buddy Baseball park was built on Aptakistic Rd, adequate parking space was not included despite what the official plans indicated. Recently I read about the citizens who would be affected by the Aptaktic changes wanting a stoplight at Brandywyn. They were told they would not get one unless the expansions went through despite parents repeatedly voicing their concerns over their children's safety when crossing the street. Leaders need to listen to what the citizens are saying instead of just looking at blueprints and IDOT regulations. Numbers are fine on paper, but they don't meet the needs of the people. Leaders: TIME TO LISTEN!