6 of these Bills players (that Flames Coach Brown complains about) left the Flames this year specifically to play for Bills Coach Weber. Of course, Coach Brown is upset...they were supposed to be HIS superstars and they left in their last year to play for the Flames ultimate rivals. And his team got soundly beaten by the Bills.

Important Fact: 3 of TCYFL best refs were asked to referee this particular game because of it's (yearly) intense rivalry. Additionally a TCYFL board member supervised the entire game (before, during and after) and called it a CLEAN game and their post- game report gave a glowing review.

I'm told 30 kids left the Flames this year to join the Bills. Wondering why that is?

In response to “Football Coach Concerned About Bullying”.

Many accusations were made by Jim Brown, a concerned parent, teacher and Lake Zurich Youth Football Coach for TCYFL Big Ten Light Weight Football Team.

First of all, TCYFL is a first class youth sports program, which is managed and run with the highest of standards for good sportsmanship. This is the main reason Buffalo Grove Bills joined the TCYFL and why it has become the largest independent youth football league in the country.

Mr. Brown states that TCYFL is doing nothing to stop the unsportsmanlike conduct and bullying that the Buffalo Grove Bills Big 10 Lightweight team hands out each week. Also that the communities that have played Buffalo Grove this year agree with him. Did Mr. Brown speak with the highly respected Lake Villa and WKC organizations? Ask them their opinions of Joey Weber and the Buffalo Grove Bills. Maybe this is more an issue of a coach being embarrassed that 5 players left his team because they did not want to play for the Lake Zurich Big 10 Lightweight team. Why? Could it be that he is not a competent coach? I have seen many teams that have Daddy as the head coach and he wants his son to be the quarterback, or running back, but it is not for the betterment of the team? I would have to question myself when ¼ of the team leaves to go to another program

(see next post for remainder)

Mr. Brown, I would like to know what are the punishments you handed out to your players, who have reportedly taunted and threatened to “Break our legs” on facebook? As you state, “the behavior and actions of a football team is the direct responsibility of its head coach”.

Also, as I personally witnessed one of your coaches, who threatened Coach Weber and swore at him in front of both teams during the post game. Joey Weber walked away without a response. I would be interested in what disciplinary actions you took or will take against this coach.

In addition, the referees gave Buffalo Grove a great report in writing. There was also a TCYFL Executive board member at the game and he gave Joey Weber a glowing report.

In my opinion, this appears to be a coach who is upset that his team got beat and that 5 of his former players left his team to play for a Buffalo Grove Bills and Coach Joey Weber, who has a national reputation for success. For those that don’t know Coach Weber, he is about teaching life lessons, and yes one of the lessons is how to win and be successful!

(See next post for more)

Your statement that you never came across a team so bent on winning that everything else is set aside. Does this include your decision to play a quarterback with a broken arm, in a cast and all padded up? Is it about protecting your son’s position at quarterback or winning at all cost?

As a final note: Mr. Jim Brown implies that Joey Weber and the Buffalo Grove Bills are bullies and act with rampant unsportsmanlike conduct. Mr. Brown, what have you done to help reduce the unsportsmanlike conduct within your own Lake Zurich program? As I am sure you know, a fellow Lake Zurich coach was ejected from a game at the Buffalo Grove Bills field on the same day as your youth football game. He allegedly tried to run at a referees not only once but twice, and also was yelling and threatening a Buffalo Grove player. He was held back by other Lake Zurich Coaches and resisted when he was told by the referees and field marshal to leave the field. Your concern and outrage may be better spent looking at your own program instead of others.

My son is on a team that has played Buffalo Grove earlier in the year. Yes coach Brown is correct. Buffalo Grove is what is wrong with youth sports. The lack of sportsmanship and the verbal abuse that happened in that game was appalling. I would suggest that parents of boys re-think about exposing your child to such bad behavior. I know after watching his game against Buffalo Grove I will probably not let him play next year. 

My son’s team also played against Buffalo Grove this year. Everything that is being said about Buffalo Grove is true. They are very poor sports and are dirty players. Their coach is out of control. We wanted to file a complaint about their actions but the league quickly swept it under the rug.

My son's team also played against Buffalo Grove a few weeks ago. In all the years of my kids playing football I have never seen such disgraceful behavior and unsportsmanlike conduct. I am outraged at the coaching and shocked that parents would allow their children to even be in a program that promotes that kind of behavior. It came across that they not only did they want to win they wanted to hurt and shame our team, it was disgusting. Even more disgusting to me was that after a complaint was filed against this team it was brushed under the rug because of the coaches affiliation with TCYFL.

I cannot believe the kids are being used as pawns by adults that only want to win. As Jim pointed out in his letter, the Buffalo Grove team is a good team, so why would they behave so poorly. I commend the Lake Zurich Team for not stooping to their level.

It’s possible that being good in football might get you somewhere in life, but being a good and caring person will take you a lot further in any and everything you choose to do.

If the Coach of the Buffalo Grove Team does not do the right thing, they should find another coach.

My son's team also played Buffalo Grove a few weeks ago, they should hang their heads in SHAME - yes it's great to win, who doesn't like to win, but at the expense of honor and good sportsmanship? what a horrible price to pay. We also experienced verbal abuse, bad calls, and the intent to hurt our players... The coaches on BG should be removed and the players should understand why, and where are these kids parents? They are okay with verbal abuse, profanities & bullying? again SHAME!

Since "Time" began, wise men have said "the truth" probably lies somewhere between the extreme comments made by the two sides in a controversy, ..... in this case, the extreme comments made by BOTH the Lake Zurich coach AND the B.G. coach.
Rarely have I ever encountered ANY situation in which ONE SIDE is Lily white.... and the other side is Darth Vadar.

Our experience with Buffalo Grove was a separate issue as my son is not on the Lake Zurich team. I point this out only so people know that this is not just s rivalry between two teams . Buffalo Grove players circled our players taunting and laughing before the game as the Coach stood there observing. During the game there were several cheap hits and constant disgusting comments throughout the entire game. One particular hit left our player dazed and stumbling while not more than two feet away the player delivering the hit was woo hooing and high fiving his teammates as the player was being checked out. We as parents were shocked into silence watching this brutality. I hope something is done about this team of bullies-I would be so ashamed if any of my boys ever acted the way those young men did.

C'mon protective parents! Let's be clear...this is elite youth football...aka the Gold teams (or "Sunday" teams) and this league is for the most competitive players & coaches. EVERYONE here plays to win. This is NOT YMCA "no score, everybody wins" flag football. If TCYFL doesn't respond to your complaints, maybe it's because your concerns are unjust.

All this baloney that the Bills are dirty players is one-sided and a disservice to these boys. Of course things happen ON BOTH TEAMS. (Flames check your lightweight gold Facebook players lengthly rants threatening to give specific Bills kids concussions and break their legs. Also check the game film video to see your Flames coach being EJECTED from his game) Football is 90 min of pure physical & mental warfare. If you can't take the heat...

My son currently plays for Coach Weber. My son is a quiet, kind, straight-A honor roll kid and he loves playing for Joey. He's learned more about himself, his band of brothers and the art of competition & football than he has in all his other 5 years of football combined. We are lucky to have him as our son's coach. He is the best of the best.

So if you would have come to the Bills field the day after the game, you would have seen two 8th grade buddies hanging out...teasing each other about the game the day before. 1 Bills & 1 Flames kid.

Enough said...parents, let's all move on. Seriously.

Exactly the kind of comment I would have expected from the parent of one of those kids. Obviously we are aware of the elite division mentality, dosent mean good sportsmanship gets thrown out the window.

Exactly the kind of things I was concerned about when the Patch profiled Coach Weber and his great winning record - winning is all that matters to him and his coaches (Marc Drazner, "Just Saying"). They have taught the kids to win no matter what, and to hell with sportsmanship.
When I coached youth sports, if any of my kids engaged in any taunting, they were made to stop and apologize. Then again, they were mainly taught by the example that my coaches and I showed them.
As a youth coach, regardless of whether it is "YMCA" level, house league, "elite", ot "travel" teams, you are still responsible for teaching the kids good sportsmanship. Yes, everyone likes to win. But you still DO NOT rub kids noses into a loss. You don't have to run up scores, and you DO NOT allow your players to taunt! Here's what NAYS says about sportsmanship - Children will follow the example of adult role models, positively or negatively. Children will copy or imitate sports behaviors witnessed, including the development of values based on that behavior. Adults
must be a positive role model exhibiting sportsmanlike behavior at games, practices, and at all times while giving positive reinforcement to the children and supporting their coaches, staff and other volunteers.
That doesn't go out the window just because its an "elite" team!

Simply put,,,,,,,, You have crossed the line !

Do you even know Joey Weber as a person? I personally do and can tell you that your opinion of him is dead wrong. The Lake Villa Timberwolves program has had the pleasure of getting to know Joey and his entire program. We have the utmost respect for Joey , his coaches and the Bills program. Joey and the Bills program have participated in our annual kick off and we have participated in the Bills Jamboree as well as our big ten teams have scrimmaged pre season for the past 2 years. Joey,,his coaches and entire program have always shown great sportsmanship . Joey is Joey,,his gamesmanship and ability to fire up his team and get them ready for game time is second to none.

You have a right to your opinion. You do not have the right to call Joey out in a public forum such as the venue you chose to do so. Do you realize that his wife,kids and friends will be reading this? Do you realize that people within the Flames organization will also be reading it? Do you realize that Bills players ,parents,and coaches will be reading and hearing about this? If you have a problem with Joey and the Bills why didn't you man up and have a conversation with him? You took the cowards approach and sent in one man's opinion to a newspaper. That simply crosses the line ! What gives you the right to be judge and jury?

I would say your nothing but a sore loser and a guy that really needs to grow up !

(Continued on next post)

Could it be that your angry with Joey and the Bills for what you perceive as a wrong done to you and the Flames program? We all know your obsession with the fact that you believe Joey has kids that belong to the Flames. Crying over spilled milk does nothing,but make you look like a big baby. This is not about winning or losing , it is about our kids . What lesson are you trying to teach?

What gives you the right to attempt to destroy the reputation of a coach, husband,father and friend? You should be ashamed of yourself. The Flames should be ashamed to have you coaching and participating in their program.

You have lost touch with why we all dedicate countless hours to coaching and volunteering. It is not about YOU and your dislike for Joey Weber. It is about the kids we all coach and the game we love. It takes a big man to take the high road. You chose to take the road that makes you look very small !!!

(continued)

Is there a reason you decided to send this to all of the league reps and not to the president of the TCYFL and it's executive board ? I think we all know the reason. Not only did you call out Joey Weber in a public forum, you also called out the most respected Youth football league in the land. You have forgotten what sportsmanship,pride,respect,and being an adult is. You need to look in the mirror !

Grow up dude ! Your approach has no place in the TCYFL or youth sports of any kind !

Friends of Joey Weber

Dale Kaplan
Lake Villa Timberwolves
TCYFL League Rep

Big Baby

I ask you all one question how many of you truly know Joey Weber to question his spirit? Should I take it upon myself to question your character or spirit as you have no issue sending this email to the contact list yet do not have the balls to send it to anyone within the BG Family?? I have competed against Joey for 5 years and can say he is a great coach who genuinely cares for his kids. Do his teams play on the edge? Yes of course!! Are they dirty or cheap? Not a chance!! We played BG earlier this year and had no issues at all(for the record my lightweight team lost by 30). Does Joey do himself any favors by being Joey nope not a chance but I will stand by him as I know who he is and what he stands for. Maybe some others need to look in the mirror before calling someone else out about being a poor sport.

Grow up!!! and Grow a pair if you wanna question a man's character

Mike Gentile
Western Kenosha County Football

As far as that bs post yesterday, I don’t know all of the story nor do I need to, but you have our full support. Strong teams like the Bills are what makes this league what it is.
Sh-t happens all the time, but we all know there’s a time, a place and a process for resolving conflict. And using the newspaper and a gutless email is certainly no way to accomplish it.
Our LW Big10 team will play yours in Week 9 and they will probably get beat soundly, but stronger competition makes you better. And for our struggling LW Big10 team who will miss the playoffs, this will be their Super Bowl and a shot to see what they can do against a great team.

Pat Cobb
Cary Jr Trojans

What a sad way to build a reputation for Buffalo Grove. I would much rather see BG teams be known for the classy and athletic way that they play the game than how many wins they have. The lessons that these players are learning now dictate in large part the way they will live their lives. Do we really need more bullies in high school, college and the business world? Do we really need more adults who will stop at nothing to get what they want? Remember, children learn what they live.

Janet,
Eack week Coach Webber has a life lesson that he builds the week around. It is listed on the game notes the kids get. This week it is "The choices we make dictate the lives we lead" (Like your post).... Look at the kids who played for him and the success they have in sports and the classroom afterwords. He is the one who builds successful kids! It is truly amazing what he has built and how his former players have a undying loyalty to him. He makes the kids better players, students and people. Forget the above made up posts by Lake Zurich bitter coaches and thier friends. Every kid in the Bills dreams about playing for Coach Webber when they are in 8 TH grade and wants the experience.
Homecomming at BG brings back 15 - 20 of his former players every year. They come to see him. Thats the reputation you want for BG.

Why is it that several other TCYFL programs have posted supporting Buffalo Grove and indetified themselves by NAME AND PORGRAM/TOWN?

There a few post supporting Lake Zurich coach Jim Brown, but none of them have a name or a program/town attached. They all start with the same sentence.
Coach Brown, stop having your one friend post and pretending they are from somewhere else.
Name and program please?

Why hasn't the TCYFL or the refs done anything after all your whinnying and crying about BG?

How many kids will the Flames lose next season to BG because of you?

Webber does not have to recruit. He simply needs to have the Flames continue to retain it's current coaches and the parents will continue to send thier kids to Bills Nation. Jim, your the best recruiting tool that BG has ever had. Keep up the good work!
Lastly because of the smear campaign you have initiated, and judging by the responses from the league and the Bills, you have made Coach Webber a sympathetic figure. Now that is an accomplishment no one thought possible for a guy everyone wants to beat!

Let's all grow up here, and stop the name calling. The main point that I got out of Coach Brown's letter to the editor is that there was bullying and taunting going on, and that the BG coaches did not put a stop to it. Let's all just agree that this kind of unsportsmanlike behavior has NO place in youth sports (this is not professional sports!). The coaches are responsible for teaching their players sportsmanship and to be positive role models for their players. 'Nuff said.

I don't who any of you people are and I am completely involved with the Bills organization, however, I am a coach for my children. I say to all you, step up and take responsibility for your children. Joey Weber cannot make that big of an impact on your kids during a football season. Competition and winning and accountability is something we are all putting off on other. These people are volunteers! Raise your own children, don't blame the volunteer coach.

Hey Alan, "Let's all grow up here, and stop the name calling. "

Did you just contadict yourself, in writing, within 1 hour?
That just happened!

"yes, I quickly and loudly told him to stop." Alan Danenberg

"Let's all just agree that this kind of unsportsmanlike behavior has NO place in youth sports " ****** Alan Danenberg

****** Feel free to exhibit poor behavior if YOU feel it is OK and if you are Alan Danenberg

Sorry if you view this as name calling, just qouting your written comments.

Jim - First off, I want to commend your son on a gutsy performance against us. The cast on his arm looked like it weighed as much as he did but he came out and battled and I want to compliment him on that. Having said that, how can you possibly justify this letter as anything other than a rant on why you don't like Joey? When you mention his name as many times as you did it makes it pretty clear you're only goal is to attack him personally. Assuming I'm wrong though let's talk about why your argument is poorly constructed.
In your title you state you're concerned about bullying within football games. Do you understand the main problem with bullying occurs when kids are left feeling alone and helpless? How can you sit there and write that your entire team feels alone and helpless? Your point about bullying is tantamount to the little boy crying wolf. It only trivializes poor kids who feel alone in school and seriously need the help.
Others have already addressed why your points about name calling and taunting are meaningless. Any coach who believes his 8th grade boys aren't trash talking each other is either extremely naïve or so out of touch they don't understand their kids at all. For example, the taunting call you mentioned in your letter, do you honestly think that was unprovoked? You mentioned not thinking it was in his demeanor but instead of looking at your team you assume it's Joey's fault? I would hope you're better than that Coach.

In conclusion, I've coached Joey's line the last 3 years and never once did we encourage a late or illegal hit in a game. The last thing any of us want to see is a kid get hurt in a game. It is true our boys do play with a chip on their shoulder but while you guys were singing happy birthday after our game, we were actually lecturing our kids on the stupid penalties and that's something we continue to work on. However, I have to defend my boys playing aggressively as they have been written off by numerous coaches in the past who have dismissed them as uncoachable or primadonnas or generally soft. I would have a big chip on my shoulder too if I was a 13 year old written off by an adult but that's a different problem in youth sports.
I also understand this will have little impact on peoples' opinion. I just offer it in hopes that we all continue to look at ourselves and improve the general play not just of our own teams but of the great TCYFL overall.

I don't live in buffalo grove or know any of the people posting here, but in finding this story and reading the comments I have to say that those of you who are apologists for the thuggish behavior of these young athletes sound ridiculous as you make excuses and justify unacceptable behavior. If any of the original story is true, and based on the aggressive and attacking comments from those of you who don't like what has been said it seems obvious that it IS true, there is no excuse for those who are in charge of this team. I wouldn't care if the coaches are helping the players with their homework after practice and volunteering their time feeding the local homeless they are still in charge and therefore responsible for the tone of their team. It is possible to dominate and even intimidate without resorting to thug behavior. Coaches are responsible and turning a blind eye or justifying inappropriate behavior due to the equally inappropriate actions of others (also undoubtedly true) does not make anyone a great leader or wonderful teacher. A real coach assumes all responsibility for all aspects of the players and their behavior, and no amount of good intentions or daily life lessons can make up for enabling the inmates to run the asylum. Take a step back and stop being so defensive.

Yeah, Alan! Next time wait until there is actual property damage or an injury before you act so irrationally! Sheesh!!! ;-)

You are all immature. I see this kind of back and forth from 13 year olds on Facebook. I have no affiliation on either side. Any sport at the youth level is supposed to be about having fun, learning how to compete, gaining confidence, and dealing with adversity. Kids are smart and pick up on things quickly. My guess is all of your children are picking up something from the anomosity displayed here. I'm not real sure it is the type of example I would want to set for my children.

Outsider does make a great point. This thread will accomplish absolutely nothing but build on the obvious animosity that is currently out there. I'm as guilty as anyone but when we start talking about the thuggish behavior of football players during a football game it has obviously gone past the point of rational discussion.

Marc Drazner, you and Former Flame are the ones most guilty of immature behavior on this site!

Just by reading the comments from this Marc fellow and a "Former Flame" ( who won't sign his name one can see the bullying continues on. The Coaches and League by being silent and turning a blind eye are giving Tacit approval of this conduct."Former Flame also attacks 13yr old kids. BIG MAN. Ron Engel Grayslake

A perspective from Gurnee (Warren)...... I worked chains during the BG v Warren game the week prior. BG's behavior mirrored the conduct described in LZ coach Jim Brown's comments. There were plenty of examples of poor sportsmanship on the part of BG throughout our game. To be fair, Warren was not flawless in their ability to turn the other cheek. To illustrate: During half-time, Warren players warmed up mid-field and BG players formed up just 10 or 15 years away. BG jeering insued. As the Warren kids pulled together for a cheer at the end of their warm-up, BG players created a tight circle around the Warren players, physically and verbally taunting the Warren players. Warren players could not move more than a few feet without coming into contact with a circling BG player. Think "THUG". Warren football program directors, Warren coaches, and eventually some refs came out to end this leaderless scene before it got even more out of hand. I didn't see any BG coaches intervene. Ahead 30-0, the BG conduct made no sense. Based on how BG played, Coach Weber seems to have great FB coaching skills . BG - you have a great bunch of kids who play amazing well together. Enjoy a great season as perhaps the best team in the league.... but do it with class and show the rest of the league how to win with style and great sportsmanship." Your team definitely has the skills part of football nailed. I wish you all the best in getting it right in the areas that matter most.

PS.... I don't know any of the coaches or posters personally. I heard about this article and was so taken back by the BG conduct at the Warren game I felt it was worth my time to weigh in with my observations. I have no doubt that these are all great people, but much like myself.... able to benefit from another perspective in trying to do the right thing. Best of luck to you all.

I can't believe what I just read. I don't know if what T Ward wrote is true, but if it is ALL of you BG supporters should have your heads examined. Surrounding the boys on the other team at halftime with the sole purpose to taunt and intimidate in a game you are leading 30-0? Forget the irresponsible coaches, where are the parents of the players on the BG team? I would never allow my son to behave in this way! I would be out on the field and remove him from that environment. It is UNACCEPTABLE. You people who would defend actions like this or coaches who would allow it through their own inaction should re-examine what you are endorsing and who you allow to influence your boys. The picture T Ward painted is about as ugly and thug-like as anything I could imagine, I can't believe this would happen in the northern suburbs.

BG didn't surround Warren and they have the film to prove it. A Warren coach directed his players to confront BG and that is also on film.

To start off, I would like to say I am a player for coach Brown's team. I had a personal view of what occured during the LZ vs BG game. Many people have referred to trash talking that occured on facebook. This did occur, however, there is no proof that it was influnced by any coaches or anyone besides the players themselves, making that argument irrelevant. As for what I was able to see as a player, Buffalo Grove is a very sloppy organization. I have not heard anything good about this team other than from players of that team themselves. To start off, the pre-game warm-ups were unbelieveable to me that coaches, or any adult for that matter, would stand and watch as players verbally abused other players with many homophobic and other harsh slurs that I will not repeat on here. Also, I know 100% for sure the coaches of BG were within hearing distance of this. The BG team ran by my practice field as close to us as they could and repeatedly harrased us. In response, our team remained silent as our coaches had instructed us to. This event of the opposing team running past us occured twice, and the coaches did nothing about it. During BG's warmups, they continued to verbally assault us at the end of each exercise. On the field, I heard occurences of trash talking before and after each play directed at specifice players of my team. The refs did correct some of this through warnings, yet it was never completely stopped. Overall, I am very dissapointed in BG's football program.

There are several thoughts that merit discussion here:
1. Joey Weber's competitive nature. I happen to know Joey pretty well. I can tell you that there is NOTHING that Joey would like more than to have a team compete against him. Joey loves to win, but Joey loves competition even more. Is it fun to win by 30 points? It is better than losing by 30, but it gets old when you can't find a decent game. Joey is a coach that you love if he is on your side but you hate if he is on the other side. The best illustrations/comparisons I can give are Dennis Rodman, A.J. Pierzynski, and Bob Probert. Chicagoans hated each of them until they became a beloved member of the home team.

2. Joey's attitude/teachings. Joey is a cerebral, fun loving guy. He cares about each player in the Bills organization from the #1 kid to the bottom kid on the Bobblehead team. Joey loves to win and enjoys the moment. Among other things that Joey teaches his kids, he tries to teach them to enjoy every second on the football field. Does has a weekly Life Lesson that is not only mentioned at the beginning of the week, it is a theme for the week. It is explained throughout the week. It is made relative to everything they are doing that week. Please tell me another youth coach that does that.

Joey's player absolutely hoot and holler all game long. Their opponents do the same on the rare occasions that they get the opportunity to do so. These are children and they should enjoy themselves. Jumping up and down with each other and "wooing" are part of enjoying the game. It happens in every high school, college and professional game as well.

I am guessing that most of you are parents. I am further guessing that each of you has had a time or two when your child comes home and says "Johnny was being mean to me." What is your immediate thought process? I bet it was that Johnny is not nice. Upon further investigation you find that Johnny was not pleasant, but that your child was an equal participant in the poor behavior and the culpability was evenly distributed. I coach football and can tell you that EVERY game I have players come up to me and tell me that #4 or #10 is calling him names or holding him or cheap shotting him etc....my response is "tell the officials." Our job as coaches, parents, fans is NOT to adjudicate the game. The officials are there to do so. Can you tell me that the Bills players were sly enough to do their taunting enough to bother opposing players but quietly enough that the refs couldn't see or hear it? BTW, as a former college football player I can tell you that words are just the beginning. In college games players have their eyes gouged, are spit upon, and in fumble pile ups their testicles are free game for the opposition.

Football is a tough, mean, ugly game. It is not for the weak.
The long and short regarding Joey's teachings are that he does not teach dirty play. He teaches kids things that they will take with them in life. Joey is a father figure a teacher and a friend.

3. I am not going to bash Jim Brown as I don't know him. However, does anyone think that this is the proper way to express a concern? I would be willing to wager that if Mr. Brown had asked Joey to meet with him for lunch, dinner, coffee or a beer, Mr. Weber would have been happy to do so and pay for the meal. Meeting with Weber would have been the proper way for Mr. Brown to express his issues.

4. Intimidation. Like it or not, intimidation is part of sports. I have not seen Weber's teams go toward other teams for the purpose of intimidating them, but intimidation can only occur if the opposition allows it. If a Bobblehead team did the taunting that Weber's team is suggested to have done would it be intimidating? Answer...no. Reason? Because the bobbleheads don't strike fear in the eyes of anyone. If Mr. Weber's team intimidated a team it is because said team was in fear prior to the game. It was not due to the BG behavior. If the BG team said nothing but walked past your team smiling and nodding their heads would that be intimidating? I bet it would have the same impact. With all of this said, the key is that LZ admitted to FB taunts. This is a 2 way street with both teams sharing responsibility.

5. I live in Buffalo Grove and prior to yesterday I had not heard of the Patch. How is it that so many people know about this site? My best guess is that those who are seeking support for their position are campaigning for support and asking others to jump on the bandwagon.

From the outside you may have one view of Joey Weber. From the inside I can tell you that each and every one of you would do well for your sons if they were allowed the opportunity to play for Joey Weber.

At the end of the day the BG Bills are like any other business. If the business is not run properly the business will die. Most of the families that comprise the Bills are well educated and give thought to their decisions. The Bills numbers are at an all time high this year. The teams are doing quite well on the field. Weber as president of the organization must be doing something right!!

I find it odd that BG has such an "incredible youth program" with the Bills and yet the Stevenson and Buffalo Grove High School teams fail to match the success of the Lake Zurich High program. Perhaps the emphasis on basic fundamentals, fair play and a team mind-set rather than winning at all costs suits the LZ program better in the long term. It seems that plenty of BG youths may have TCYFL trophy's i their bedrooms rooms while many LZ Flames have State Championship trophy's in theirs. Which would you prefer?

There are several potential reasons for that, not the least of which is that kids are splitting between SHS and BGHS.

From a non-involved outsider standpoint it seems obvious that those involved in BG football are not interested or concerned about the issues being raised here. I'm sure that there are plenty of good things that come out of the kids involvement in the BG football program, but that does not excuse making football a stage to showcase unacceptable behavior. So many words being written to sing the praises of the coaching staff and their program, but all this only serves to deflect the larger issue at hand. I'd like to think that outside of the handful of individuals commenting here who would excuse and attempt to justify the thug behavior of their children, there are those inside the program who understand that this practice is unacceptable and must stop. Intimidation and domination should occur only as a result of playing the game, not running your mouth or acting like a gang of hoodlums in warm ups. Football is NOT an ugly game like Anon says it is, but the actions of the BG players and (even worse) those adults who apparently endorse, accept, & justify these actions are very ugly. Get it together TCYFL because obviously some involved are unable to identify and deal with this problem.

Wish I hadn't checked back. What a shame to see what this discussion has turned into. YIKES! With 3 sons and 11 seasons worth of TCYFL participation... this is witihout a doubt a great program with great people creating a great experience for our family. As good stewards of a great program, we all share in the accountability and responsibility of sustaining a quality program. The original article addressed a concern that mirror the out-of-the-ordinary conduct witnessed at our Warren v BG game the week prior. Calling upon BG to raise the bar in sportsmanship seemed appropriate from what we observed in Gurnee. Much of the faceless assaults and off-topic accusations posted here are acts by individuals, but they do more to underscore the impression that good sportsmanship needs a leadership very different than what is exhibited in these posts. Here's a great equation I learned.... works well for me: (Typing it + sleeping on it + re-wording it + posting it = less regretting it!). Sleep well :)

Marc, Just Saying, and Former Flame (I’ll pretend I don’t know who you are). Please read Coach Brown’s article again. The objective was to stop the bullying. To deny that it exists is foolish-to defend it-even more foolish. There are way too many people who have witnessed it.
Yes, boys. Glance back up at the top left hand corner of this reply. My name is proudly displayed as Coach Jim Brown’s wife of almost 30 years. It pains me to see my husband openly ridiculed for bringing up this “closet” subject. Bullying does not make a boy a man. Better men than you have determined bullying, celebrating, and taunting, etc as WRONG. The NFL has penalties for players perpetrating such antics.
Thank you to those of you who have chosen to support Jim in his crusade. Two of the parents who have lodged a complaint with the league against Buffalo Grove say it was “swept under the rug”, thus, the public forum. I would like to ask all of you who are reading this to refer back to “Former Flame” reply on Tuesday, October 3rd 10:03am. Wherein he/she (benefit of the doubt) openly humiliates a 13 year old boy, “He should be playing in the PAC 10 as a non skill player”. What a little, little, little person you are to degrade a 13 year old boy on an open public forum. UNFORGIVABLE!!!

Then again, thank you for giving us yet another example of the mentality of one of the Buffalo Grove Supporters. This is the reason I have chosen to reply. I can ignore just about everything else, but an attack on an innocent boy should be addressed and you should be ashamed.
Former Flame continues on his reply to degrade the entire coaching staff with sarcasm and innuendo. It’s easy to voice an opinion anonymously and without facts, isn’t it? Former Flame…I have a question for you…Why are we not calling YOU coach? Marc, you have such compassion for your head coach, please help redirect the talents he and his coaching staff have to the art of the game and leave the bullying to our adult politicians. Jim openly admits respectfully in his article that the Buffalo Grove Bills are a great skilled team. Why would the coaching staff feel it’s necessary to ignore/defend the issue of excess bullying? How far will parents and coaches push the “boys will boys” justification?
To hold a Park District football coach responsible for his players at all time is outrageous, but when in their charge (practices, warm-ups and games) these kids should be taught to maintain a measure of respect for their teammates as well as their opponents. What better way then to lead by example. That’s all. No more. No less.

All these parents need to take a seat and realize that football is football. If you want to teach your kid to be soft an not have any desire to win thats fine but all weber is doing is teaching his players to be aggressive and win. I know all the ex players for weber didn't turn out as bad kids and most of them are actually very successful. lz parents to to relax and instead of complaining and sending in bad reports. they should teach there kids to be less soft and teach them to be winners at football and life

All of you need to step back and look at what this forum has become. I am a BG product, I did not play football, but knew many that did. I normally would sit back and read all of this and walk away. However, something struck me enough to put my 2 cents in. I have worked for the past 15 years at a local park district running one of the youth sports programs. I have seen every scenario possible when it comes to the sport, coaches attacking coaches, parents attacking coaches, coaching scolding players, players disrespecting coaches, you name been there and done that. The one thing that I learned in all these years is that it falls onto the parents shoulders to teach kids sportsmanship. To put that responsibility onto a stranger that sees your kid for 2 nights a week for 2 hours and then again once on the weekend for another 2 hours is unfathomable. Those of you on here you are bashing other teams for being disrespectful or have "They did it first" mentality, grow up look in the mirror, because what you see is what the impressionable mind of a 13 year old sees as well. We all get caught up in the emotion of the battle and sure words can be said, but to carry on the conversation like it was earlier is downright unreal.

Coach Brown has every right to speak his mind, will everyone agree with it. Absolutely not! Nor should it be expected. However, to come on here and degrade 13 year kids is down right immature and should not be tolerable. Mrs. Brown, I respect the fact that you came on here to defend your husband and to stand by your morales. To me that is what we all should be doing, not point fingers at each other like a bunch of well..........13 year olds on a playground!

Thank you
Have a nice day

Who cares? Pee Wee football is all about overbearing coaches and parents who were never good enough to accomplish anything when they were kids. Your kids aren't getting college scholarships or going to the NFL so get a life losers.

C-Dub, you are totally wrong. While parents do need to teach and be involved in sportsmanship, it is absolutely up to the coaches to take the lead. Like you said, these are impressionable kids and they follow the lead of there coaches. I have seen great, quite , respectfull kids end up on teams with yelling, disrespectful coaches and what do you know? By the end of the season, those kids are just as disrespectful as their coaches. If any of my players did anywhere close to some of the things mentioned in this forum, I would bench them! Period! Players should be taught to respect their opponents, the officials, the parents and the opposing coaches. If the don't, they either won't be on my team or will be on the bench. The team will be just fine with another kid who wants to pay within these team rules.

Intimidation and bullying are the same in my book!! No one should go thru it.

DOSEN'T ANYONE WORK ANYMORE

Well , for anyone playing In Buffalo Grove football and looking for a classier organation. Trevianfootball.com
The name is Northshore football. It is dropping the Trevian name and will and does feed kids from the entire Northshore. We have kids from Evanston to Lake Forest and as far west as Rolling Meadows.

Evanston plays in a different league than us, Real Travel football for kids who want to play more than their area leagues. And yes if a BG kids or parents want to get away from all this distracting hoopla that BG brings with it ! than yes, we can provide that for them. It's to bad that a guy who runs a YOUTH PROGRAM can carry such a black cloud over himself and the rest of the league and kids. Sounds like Weber should step away and let the kids shine a bit. Too bad that he has to draw some much attention to himself. Sounds like a EGO maniac

This guy Joe sounds like Weber. It probably is Weber. The BG people should just stop talking. They always wantto have the last word . I wonder if they are reading what they are writing. So so sad for those kids that have to be submitted to those types of coaches that think trash talk is ok. I heard the reason Weber does this is because he haas a Napoleon complex !!!

talking is part of the game. I was always taught let your actions speak for yourself . Never seen Joe Weber but I
here he has a Napoleon complex..

Joe,

It saddens me that there are parents in our community that feel the way you do. If that is what football is truly about, then I don’t think there has ever been a sport more detrimental to the development of young men.

I am beginning to think that our youth sports programs, and football in particular, are a Petri dish for growing bullies in our schools.

Why is the word Bullying continually used to describe this situation? The fact is BG wins football games at all levels,Big ten,Mac ten and Pac ten. There coaches all do a great job getting these kids ready week in and week out. Win or lose The BG Bills teach fundamentals,sportsmanship,leadership, and gamesmanship ! In real life we all look for an edge in everything we do. If Joey Weber uses some gamesmanship to gain an edge, what's wrong with that ? His ability to teach and have kids rise to a level they never thought they could is what makes him an outstanding coach. I know the man personally,, he nor his coaches teach their players to swear or be disrespectful to their opponenents. The man is a father and a husband first. Coaching football is his passion. Teaching kids to better men on and off the field is why he coaches. If you were to ask any kid that ever played for this man or their parents, you would be hard pressed to find any that have a bad word to say about him or the BG Bills program. Perception is the problem . What you think you see may not be what you actually see ! For the record,, this post is not from a BG Parent , coach or player.

Joe,

It is comments like yours that are waking me up to what is most likely a bigger problem than I thought existed.

I sincerely hope that your beliefs represent a small fraction of the way parents in our (or any) community think. I completely disagree with you; trash talk or (as you put it) verbally taking someone off of their A game is not acceptable behavior in youth sports.

I think you are being naive if you think that such behavior on the athletic field doesn't carry over to the school playground and hallways.

Maybe it's time to stop commenting, spend time thinking about the concerns and ensure the boys are playing how they need to play AND being good sports and leaders on the field starting now... Let everyone forget what happened by ensuring it doesn't continue (and it will take parents, coaches, officials and most importantly the players/teammates to make that happen). Players - don't say it ... Just show how good you are on the field... Let that me your "intimidation"!

well said Mike

Let me add to these comments my thoughts and observations. I can tell you that everything said here is true about Weber and his tactics, he boasts about them all the time. .And when people ask where are the parents when this happens let me enlighten you. If you question or cross Joey Weber or any of his flunkies ,you and your kid are "bulied" and Intimidated even more. He likes to intimidate parents and they are afraid of him for their kids sake.I have heard that Weber has even called the cops on parents that disagreed with him or challengerd his ways. I have even heard that kids on the Bills B teams hassassed and bullied by his "Elite squad" and not discouraged at all. This attitude and behavior is tolerated by Weber and his immediate staff. Not all coaches. There are great coaches and parents that support the Bills and the embarrassment of Weber and his staff not only reflects on them but also on the entire Buffalo Grove Community and I encourage the Park District to step up and end this NOW.. its gone on far too long. I have heard that this is the 3rd conference they have been in since Weber took over and they were removed from both because of their actions. TCYFL also needs to step up and end this too. . what does that tell you..

And as for having to play in the Bills Program to play at SHS, My son did not play Bills but played in Deerfield as I did not want him envolved with the Bills and he was a Varsity starter and played 4 years at SHS and I remember him saying that the first day of practice Coach Mitz would say" All you Bills players forget everything you were taught at the Bills" He knew. .I say enough is enough. Mike, and actions speak louder than words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs3A8-c-ahY

Thought you should know, I married a coach and when he came back from the league's coaches meeting, he told me that Coach Weber exclaimed at the meeting that he was going to run up 100 points on Lake Zurich, whipped out his wallet, and offered to pay the fine right then and there. Before the season even began.

Good sport? You decide.

Oh, and in regard to the LZ coach who was ejected from a game vs BG, his son had been hit late repeatedly in that game. All these BG parents keep saying that they have video to prove their point. Well, the TCYFL has received video and photo proof of this boy being clearly down, the play over, and a BG player coming in late with both hands on this player's facemask.

I've also heard that these same BG boys have led with their helmet to another town's player's earhole, breaking his collarbone. It simply should not ever happen if the boys are instructed correctly on how to tackle.

Now that BG's bullying practices are well known, we'll see how many of their opponents are as intimidated when they meet BG again in the playoffs.

Not my husband in this video.

I see a BG kid come in after the LZ player is down with his helmet down. Then, as the LZ kid is writhing around in pain, I see three or four BG players jumping around and high-fiving each other. Over an injury.

Our boys back away and take a knee on injuries.

And, considering the kid on the ground is the coaches kid, and the refs are doing nothing to see if the child is ok, I have no problem with the coach running out on the field. His coaching staff was mistaken in his desire. They thought he was going after the refs, but he was trying to get to his kid. As you can clearly see, when he shook off the other coaches, he went straight to the player. Not the refs. Not the other team.

Seriously, Jay. Seriously. The tackle was clean. The late hit wasn't. And the celebration over the injured kid is unsportsmanlike conduct. Not sure why there wasn't any flags.

Ummmm...

Clearly you are too biased to even see.

Coach Weber comes over and starts barking at the LZ Coach. If you look closely, you never see him look down at the player, still on the ground because of the vicious late hit he took. The very first adult by the boy's side is the one who stormed on the field, being held back. It's easy to tell. Just count the blue shirts arriving in close proximity to the orange shirt on the ground.

I can't believe I have to explain it that way. It seems pretty simple to me.

And, I noticed you said nothing in regards to the group of BG players celebrating over the injured boy. I believe the NFL would call that taunting. It is an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.

But, I'm sure you don't want to comment on that. It's pretty clear. You don't even have to know a thing about football to know that it was unsportsmanlike.

Alan, Art, Never heard anything positive about your BGRA coaching days. You have
something negative to say about anyone that's written up in any sport article on the Patch. Art - Alan comments are all the same complaining and 'know it all' tone.

Art
9:11am on Tuesday, October 4, 2011

Alan Danenberg
12:10pm on Tuesday, October 4, 2011

P.R. - I never said I coached in BGRA, just that I coached youth sports.Sorry you get the impression that I only have negative things to say about sports. Youth sports are great, when the focus is on the correct things. And that's not just winning. The focus should be on the kids playing the game. Not on the coaches, not just on the W-L record, not just on the score.

Im a highschooler at stevenson, and i was at the game. Everything he is saying is true. Coach weber tells us to use taunts and profanity to "intimidate the other team". At the time, i was in 7th grade and all the taunting seemed to be funny and scary. But now it is just disrespectful. I feel that BG should leave the TCYFL and weber should be barred from coaching. The program over the years has become worse and worse with the dirty hits, such as the one against the middle weight big-ten flames team where a BG player clearly grabbed a kids facemask and ripped his head back, then the flames coach was banned for coaching because he charged the ref. Believe me, coach weber does teach us to play durty and taunt. And now i feel that that championship season should not count. -Q

My son played for Joey Weber for 3 years. I sought Joey out because of the excellent coaching my son would (and did) receive from Joey and his staff. We would drive from Lombard, 23 miles each way, even though we had a program in Lombard. I have found Joey to be one of the best men I have ever met. He helped develop my son into a great football player as well as a great young man.

When my son's team played weaker teams in the TCYFL, Joey instructed the BG players that after the opponent was tackled, they should help the opponent up. This happened every year I was there. This sounds like excellent sportsmanship to me.
I do not have one negative thing to say about Joey. And as the record shows, he is Unbeatable!

Art & Alan Danenberg-

The truth in my last comment must have upset you, "A" - since it's gone now.
Are you the positive role model you hoped your players to become? What were your roles in BGRA, aside from coaching and directing? Any other "side" jobs for which your kids might emulate now or later in life? It's sad that a guy like you is giving Weber advice, whether in your real name, Alan Danenberg, or "Art". Put aside Weber's intensity in sports, which appears to be among the most successful in youth coaching for those that choose that level of competition. More importantly he's a good and honest man. Are you?

Think about your own quote-------
"The coaches are responsible for teaching their players sportsmanship and to be positive role models for their players. 'Nuff said."

In today's Buffalo Grove police blotter:

Information for Police
Occurred 7:10pm on 10/5
46 Raupp Boulevard
Complainant reported that unknown subjects made disparaging and threatening remarks about him on the “Buffalo Grove Patch” website. The remarks are in response to comments the complainant made following a football game that he coached. Officer read the remarks and found no threats.

Mr. Brown, I just read your letter and agree with you. I'm embarrassed to admit that I am from Buffalo Grove and apologize for those of my fellow citizens who think this behavior is acceptable.

The most interesting part of this entire back and forth, is Joey's self-subscribed title of "Unbeatable" and the fact that everyone wants to play for BG. I believe that TCYFL is set up with several divisons; all based on a program's helmet count. If players come from miles around to play this "Unbeatable" coach, why is their helmet count intentionally held below the level of the premier division? It wouldn't be to avoid the bigger programs and act as the "big fish in the little pond" would it?

Little bullies growup to be even bigger bullies!! Is that what we are teaching our kids?

Two comments:

First, nowhere in the police report does it say who filed the report, so it could be either coach.

Second, Erica, there's an old saying that comes to mind and that is, "the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree." They may not be teaching their kids this behavior--the kids may be witnessing the behavior of the parents.

I just watched the video clip that was posted. I am not sure if this is from the game in question. The Lake Zurich staff, or at least the one coach, was completely out of line. As for Joey Weber's conduct, it was completely professional.
If you don't like people that are confident, arrogant or competitive then you are not going to like Joey. Actually talk to him and get to know him, understand his goals for the football program and the players and you will respect him.
Any youth sports, wether it is soccer, baseball, basketball or football can bring out the best and the worst in an adult. I have seen guys getting ejected from coaching 1st grade basketball teams and 3rd grade baseball teams. For some reason put cleats or gym shoes on a dad or mom and given them the title of coach and this crazy person comes out. The hardest thing to do for a parent or coach in youth sports is to keep it all in perspective and that will never change. Teasing, taunting and so on is a direct result of how a child is raised by their parents, not how they are trained by a coach. Coaches have the unenviable task of trying to control those players and the parents and still try to teach the players how to play.
Calm down folks, it's just little kids playing football. Parents, please, try not to screw it up.
George Hinkle
Buffalo Grove, IL

I 100% agree with you two, Abigail and Erica, very well put. Also, speaking as someone who played youth football for 8 years and has just graduated college, I can say that what I remember most is not what our record was in any season, but what I learned about sportsmanship and teamwork and how much fun I had. And as wild as it may sound, I did not make it to the NFL (crazy I know) and it was the sportsmanship and teamwork that I learned from those years that I was able to bring with me in my future endeavors, not the football skills I learned (ironically I played rugby in college and had to “unlearn” much of the football skills I retained). Still, I believe I wouldn't be the same person without playing those 8 years, again for emphasis NOT because of how good our record was (and do not make the mistake of thinking that I was not competitive, it was quite the contrary) but because of what I learned about how to treat people you were beating, how to behave when you were losing, and how to control yourself in a very physical game. And I will not pretend I was an angel, but if I wasn’t corrected as I was I’m not so sure those 8 years would have made the positive impact on my life that they did. It makes me sad these kids aren’t going to receive the same life lessons that I did. Hopefully they will be like “Q” and see this eventually, which I commend him for immensely, but sadly, and as optimistic as I am, I’m not sure all of them will, and that truly is the saddest part.

I’m sorry if I misunderstood, I did come into this party a bit late, but I thought the discrepancy was mostly about adults letting bad behavior ensue. I’m not entirely sure how this would correlate unless the parents were watching their teenagers post this, and I’m not saying that the language and what’s being said is good behavior in the least; however it seems that comparing the internet posts of some random unattended teenagers vs. a lightweight regulated football game with parents and coaches present isn’t really the best comparison. Again I very well could have misunderstood and my apologies if I have done so.

I find this all very disturbing; the idea that the TCYFL would allow players to leave a program and join another is against everything they allegedly stand for. When TCYFL goes out and recruit new communities to join the TCYFL tells them they will have protected boundaries. The notion that the players switched because Stevenson high school requires incoming players to play for Buffalo Grove is preposterous. That comment is made by someone from BG selling families on change by putting that family’s son’s high school career in doubt. High school football programs care about winning and that means playing the best players, regardless of their youth affiliation, in fact I would argue most good high school coaches could care less where a player came from. This is about the incoming class of middle weights did not live up to coach Webers expectations so they went out and pillage LZ who had a great group of kids. Quite frankly I find the whole thing shameful and it should not have been allowed to take place.

Continued:
As far as BG football they are who they are, they have been getting propped up by the TCYFL board since the day they joined TCYFL. Their infamous for holding helmet counts down so they don’t have to get a steady diet of Barrington, Plainfield, Libertyville, Huntley, Cary and Crystal Lake. I am not slighting any of the other programs but the reality is these organizations celebrate playing the best knowing they have to bring their A game every week to compete. I am also not sating that BG can’t compete with these towns but I guarantee that Super Bowl trophy shelf would have some empty space. One day the TCYFL and its community members will see the BG program for what it is and take a stand. My only surprise is that this garbage has been going on for 5 years and it’s just now being brought to the surface, it certainly has been brought to the attention of the TCYFL board several times. This is a call to the TCYFL to take a position or someday that goal of being the biggest independent youth football organization will come crumbling down.

Looking back at the LZ coaches article that started this all... it is sad to see the many tangents and ugly redirects that others have injected to divert the discussion away from the original topic. I'm not from BG or LZ and don't know any of the "saints" nor the "evil-doers" personnally. I found the LZ coaches first comments somewhat objective, unemotional and on-point regarding a concern over sportsmanship in the league. I was sent some of the responses pulled from Patch due to their inappropriate content. What an ugly black-eye for BG and their defense of the culture fostered by BG's coaches and parents. Their is an amazing lack of awareness by some on the BG side who continually post off-topic attacks, and slanderous ramblings. These responses, presented as if the author is a BG coach or parent, have done far more to underscore the validity of the LZ coaches concern regarding <RAMPANT UNSPORTSMAN-LIKE CONDUCT IN THE BG PROGRAM>. Reminds me of a poster I saw: (Despair.com) "None of us is as dumb as All of us".

Having watched and/or officiated hundreds of youth sporting events, I find it quite preposterous to point out one coach, one team, one game, and one youth organization as being outside the lines. If Mr. Brown were truly interested in problem-solving and finding a solution to his concerns, he would have called Mr. Weber and set up a time to sit down to discuss the issues he expressed in his editorial. A novel approach? I think not.

oh Nate you are so cute. The wifes could bake cookies and thier sons could play out in the backyard while Mr. Brown and Mr. Weber problem solve.

I am very concerned with what I have been watching transpire on this post for the past week or so. Especially what has been posted by a certain JAY. You are an illiterate, misinformed tool. I have been a long time supporter of Bills football. I was at the games that were in question that day. I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that the play in the Middle Big 10 game was the most malicous play, with intent to injure, that I have ever witnessed in youth football. You called it a clean play? Based on what? Probably game film from BG's sideline on a play that ocurred on the other side of the field. No wonder LZ's coach went crazy. Your comments continue to shed a poor light on our program. Please do us all a favor and go away. Keep your nose firmly entrenched in Joey Weber's (AKA Just Saying) rear end. You obviously enjoy it there. We don't all believe that he is the beat all, end all. In fact a lot of people think he is a disgrace.

Nicely said, Angie!

I just want to point out that, even thought there are too many comments for me to spend the day scouring all over them, I can't recall seeing a single one where ANYONE from the game in question denies the homophobic chants directed at the LZ team.

Nothing from the Bills, Coaching staff, players, or parents denying this kind of behavior occurred.

I think I'm ready to be done with this forum now. It has gotten ugly and nasty, and I do not welcome that kind of darkness into my life. I have only one last thing to say:

Sometimes is it not as important what is being said, as what ISN'T being said.

Jen, I think Jay's rude comments provide a perfect explanation as to what is going on here. These are the same people who support the actions of the BG team, which says a lot, doesn't it?

To me, anyone calling people 'white trash' and making other rude comments just goes to show us that these are the people we do not want teaching any child anything.

Jay you continue to demonstrate your utter stupidity. Please stop! You are ridiculous. I watched the video and just watched it again just to make sure. You need to do the same. The coach never came close, or even looked at the referees, as the BG video clearly shows. I wonder how you would have acted if it was your son lying on the field. I am done on this forum. It has become too ugly. One thing is for certain, however, and that is that you are an idiot of epic proportions. Do everyone from BG a favor and disappear please!

This whole thread is sad. It started as a commentary about bullying. What has transpired over the last few days is "at best" sophomoric. It almost seems to be a satire. The arguments are completely illogical (on both sides).

Jen, can you truly believe that what is "unsaid" is more important? Nobody has denied that the LZ players went on Facebook and taunted the Bills players. Nobody has denied that the LZ players started the smack talk. Simply because nobody has denied things doesn't make them factual.

The bottom line is that there is no place in sports or society for bullies. The question is whether or not this specific team is a group of bullies. There have been statements on both sides of the argument.

Piecing together the statements (I wasn't there so I can't say what happened) my BEST GUESS is that the LZ players were not happy to lose some of their better players to BG. Both sides talked "junk" to the other. BG took control of the game and their talk became louder.

With regard to the video I saw one shoulder bump by the Bills players before they realized the opposing player was injured. Nothing after seeing the kid on the field. Perhaps I am looking at a different video.

Lets try to keep the comments civil and not personal. I can promise you that there isn't a single person here who believes that bullying should be tolerated. That includes Jen, Jay and, yes, Weber.

And I will leave you with this note and something for everyone to think about. When I was a child I lived around the corner from the neighborhood bully. My bus stop was across from her house. The girl would taunt me and also broke my glasses. The mother always paid my mom for the replacement. This mother did so much for her adopted daughter. I moved away from the area for several years and returned. My mom and dad always filled me in on what went on while I was gone.

In 1982, the neighbor girl and 2 of her friends BRUTALLY MURDERED her adoptive parents. She and her friends are in prison for life.

Maybe now we should put this commenting to rest.

Let me get this straight...because bg undoubtedly handled the lz youth football team and were accused of being "bullies", they are now all going to become mass murderers? Chill out Erica and stop trying to make issues out of nothing. Take your problems somewhere else.

Z - You must love being a bully!!

Call it what you want but I don't go out bashing other adults while I sit comfortably behind my computer in disguise simply based off things I've heard...like you. So in this case I consider you a bully. Too insecure to give out your full name while verbally attacking another human would be considered bullying. Call me what you want but in the end when all is said and done in anything I do in my life I have nobody to blame but myself. You critics of Joey weber are constantly looking for excuses to blame other people for your problems, you point fingers, and take absolutely zero responsibility for your actions. You are setting bad examples for children. So I mean this when I say stop posting, you are truly embarrassing yourself.

Z - Talk about someone being in disguise.

Z - Maybe you're not a bully but you're crossing the line. I'm not setting a bad example for children. I'm not embarassing myself - You are.

Maybe us Joey weber fans missed the memo. What line exactly is it that we have all crossed that magically the Jim brown (soft) fans have managed to stay behind? You are extremely one sided and your arguments are absolutely brutal. Erica you literally just repeated everything I just said...anything new you want to bring to the table or is your response to me simply just repeating everything I said. I may not have my full name on here but that's because I came on here to defend a man that I respect beyond measures, I did not come on here to verbally assault (like a bully does) another human. Whatever I say you seem to have some ridiculous response so I'll tell you this either leave this forum now or eventually you will be commenting long enough to see yourself become the bully. Leave it alone, give it a rest, get off the computer and focus on raising your own children that should be your only responsibility when it comes to raising children. You want to "save the world" and "solve all the problems in society" be my guest but I suggest you take it one step at a time and deal with your own problems first.

Erica, thanks for the info. Yes, sometimes bullies go on to be bullies later in life and even commit heinous crimes.

BG must be proud of this one.

A typical response when you have nothing else to say...I'm proud of myself that's all I care about.

That's all you care about? Then, please, put your money where your mouth is. Only care about your self pride and stop caring about this forum.

The reason I wonder if BG is proud of what you say is because you've said to one person the following:

Leave it alone, give it a rest, focus on raising your children, get off the computer, deal with your own problems, nobody feels sorry for you, grow up, take your b.s. somewhere else, chill out, and take your problems somewhere else.

I think I speak for EVERYONE when I say that nobody likes being bossed around. Nobody likes being bullied.

Thank you for taking your time to represent Buffalo Grove with self pride. I hope they are as proud of you as your are of yourself.

Haha you are missing the point. I'm trying to get you two overprotective parents to STOP commenting not continue commenting because I also think I speak for EVERYONE when I say shut up, everybody is sick of hearing you two complain about all the problems in the world. Stop commenting and go spend time with your family or do something productive.

Z - No can do. When did you become my boss?

Jen: As far as the imaginary line that i have created no worries only fans of Weber are able to cross it so if you are a Jim Brown (soft) fan then you are in no risk of crossing that line because i created it and i judge who crosses the line or not! I am setting the best example for my children because now they know how cool and awesome i am! Me! Myself! I! But remember the communities thoughts matter more to me than my own because my impression on the community comes first before everything else.

Erica: Yeah Jen! You tell them Jen!

Jen: Erica you know i always get the last word!!!

You two are extremely repetitive. Every time i read one of your posts it is the same thing every time. By posting you are not going to change anything. You are making absolutely zero positive effects on this community. So please follow my advice when i tell you STOP COMMENTING!

Fyi, there is a boy nick-named "Q" who played for Joey Weber on the Bills. He has moved on to play successfully for Stevenson, and has no reason to stretch the truth about his past experiences with Joey Weber.

Alan Danenberg - Could you have retired "Art" for good? Is "abc" the new "Art"? Just trying to keep up with your reality. When you responded that you "really don't need to defend yourself" {8:50pm on Wednesday, October 12, 2011}, you did anyway. Interesting.

You all really need to get a life. Quit living through your kids, and the reality of your horrible life that you cover up through your kids accomplishments because at your age, you are out of accomplishments, and most of you are not even a has been, but never been.

Jay/Joey,

I have stated it three times already. My son does not play on the Middleweight team. He plays on a pac-10 Lightweight team. We do not use gold or silver or any other color to distinguish levels of play, so I'm not sure how to further distinguish this for you.

My son is not chachalove56. I have asked my children if they know who this is, and they have assured me that they have no idea. Of course, I have used this whole situation to explain to them the difference between debate and insults. As I have discussed with you before, Jay/Joey... I have not resorted to name calling (dumb, white trash) or speculating on peoples' personal lives (suggesting a cheating husband). These are examples of insults, and not educated debating. Thank you for assisting me in teaching my children right from wrong. I do appreciate the service you have provided.

Let me make this crystal clear: I am not justifying this kid's comments. He most likely is, however, a child.

And.... may I also point out, the only way I am associated with Jim Brown is simply that both of our boys play for the Flames. I have only rung in because of the hatred spread by the BG supporters on this forum, and because of the boys I do know on Brown's team who told members of my family about the poor sportsmanship before this letter was submitted to The Patch. Heck, Jay/Joey... the things you have said on this forum have been dripping with hatred. I find it incredible you would point fingers.

Z - Quit being a bully.

Wow I had to go and get my box of popcorn just to finish reading the comments posted on this thread. All I can say is there should be zero tolerance for unsportsmanlike conduct from players, coaches and parents. I don't think it's the fact that BG has a winning program that has everybody up in arms. Congrats to them for that! It’s the perceived blatant disregard for the sport as a whole and the promoting of personal agendas at the children’s expense. I disagree with some of the other posters saying LZ is sour because BG is winning football games. In my humble opinion and from what little I saw on the you tube film, it’s clear that the BG players are show-boating and high-fiven each other after that LZ player was down. This is unacceptable and since I was not present with his team on that day, I can’t say for sure that Mr. Weber did or did not correct his players for their nasty display on the field. If he did call them on it, he did the right thing. If he turned a blind eye to it then that is a huge problem; I will never know either way! Mr. Brown’s letter was not even addressing this game however; it was referring to the behavior of the BG Big 10 Lightweight players towards his team at the game they played on Sept 25th. Foolish pride is just that,,,,foolish and my advice to any coach reading this would be humility goes way further in helping teach kids valuable lessons way more than pride does.

Add another one to the list of delusional lz parents...

When you consider a matter with a fool, you become one!

http://facebook.com/bullyinggone

I don't know, shesjr, but if you log out, you can see your last comment, along with an eye-opener from ex jw player. Maybe the Patch can fix this?

Alan Danenberg - Have you retired "Art" & "abc" for good? How did you come up with "Shesjr"? Once again, just trying to keep up with your reality. Got the "picture" Alan? As far as offensive, though I didn't flag your comment ... maybe it's YOUR personal agenda that's the issue?

Some use multiple email addresses to create different "handles" for their anonymous comments. Some change, some retire and some stay consistent.

Thank you all for sharing your views on this topic. At this time, I am closing this letter for comments. Please see my "letter from the editor" at http://patch.com/A-nbWz